Curse

R.Shayne · Jul 04, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

That and remove the -50 icon and you kill the 55 build in those 2 steps.

Stop and ask yourself this question, "Why was the -50 hp Grim Cesta added to the game?" When I came to the only logical answer it was one of those "doh" moments.

55 and dying because you took on 10 enemies, not going to happen in hard mode because they will loose agro (except for the 3) before they over come you health regen. Just make sure they have a place to run and not against a left hand wall.

If you believe the conspiracy theories, the 55 Monk and the 600 Monk may have been developed by the developers or had help from developers.

Age · Jul 04, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leslie

QFT, because maintaining shadow form is not a lot different from 55'ing; in essence the 55 build also ''breaks the balance of the game'' by forcing you to only take 5 damage per hit from prot spirit and filling it up with regen. I don't get how, if SF is broken, 55 isn't? Nor 600, which is practically invincible too. Also it's not like SF is invincibility; touch skills, PBAOE, any signets and such all go through it ( i know we've all been squished by traps and Charged Blackness with [Shock] before) not to mention Twisting Jaws. I used to farm with Shadow Form long before the buff anyway, using [shadow of haste] + [dash] to get in and teleport out of danger, using [Sliver Armor] to make the kills.

I'd honestly prefer it if they just reverted the chaos plains back to how they were and lowered the duration of SF again. All you'd need to do is duo farm A/Me with someone else, right? something along the lines of [Arcane Echo] + [Arcane Mimicry] + [Deadly Paradox] + [Shadow Form] ?

It sure is a lot different as you can only go to certian places where your enchants can't be removed and in the UW the 55 needs a Necro.The 600 duel smite need 2 Monks one the tank and the other smiter.The Perma SF Sin can still solo the UW just other areas of the game which I would say is wrong they should partner it up just like most other farmers oh sure the W/Rt can solo but just the smites and some aataxes.So not like 55 solo farming but as I read further on it depends on what is being used SB or SoJ.

I do agree with your second paragraph though about SF Sins dueling it up as it would be the same as 55s as well as other team builds.This would create more balance in pve and wouldn't use Sins solely maybe something else.

Riceboi · Jul 04, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by CE Devilman

and ecto are still dropping in price...

I bet I can drop the price more....1 day to payback

Come on we can do it man. Everyone that is pissed by the sf nerf, DROP the ecto price even more. REVOLT!!!!!!

Tom Swift · Jul 05, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Stop and ask yourself this question, "Why was the -50 hp Grim Cesta added to the game?" When I came to the only logical answer it was one of those "doh" moments.

55 and dying because you took on 10 enemies, not going to happen in hard mode because they will loose agro (except for the 3) before they over come you health regen. Just make sure they have a place to run and not against a left hand wall.

If you believe the conspiracy theories, the 55 Monk and the 600 Monk may have been developed by the developers or had help from developers.

And along that line, given the fact that SF was returned to its original form by the buff and that the devs seem to have gone out of their way to keep it maintainable in the recent nerf (even at the expense of making it useless in many places), I think it is a reasonable assumption that they have meant all along for it to be able to be maintained.

I'm not saying that is a good thing, necessarily, but I think it is pretty obvious that that was how the skill was designed to work.

DeviantTeknique · Jul 05, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

sorry.

apparently people don't like Sins being able to farm all the ectos in the earth? Well i didn't know when I did This.

ofc it doesn't matter to me, I'm just trying to make people smile however they want so I thought this might be the most appropriate place to reveal this and give some of the people that don't like the ecto situation (which is fine by me also) a little gratification.

Before i continue i'd like to point out that I am aware that all I did was make a thread about an idea, i'm fairly certain others had the idea also!

Anyway: I'm not a permasin, I'm a monk. My sin has less then 500k XP, before the change to SF I had done the run a total of 4 times and all of them were on that same day. I wasn't farming, I was just curious as to how it worked. So if it makes you feel better about the permasin situation to know that the fix was spread by someone who wasn't even aware of the situation until about 3 hours before the SF change happened! Enjoy!

This is post is just a revelation of a few things I find ironic and giggle worthy, I have no opinion on ecto prices, god mode, or anything else you do in your game!

Carinae · Jul 05, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Stop and ask yourself this question, "Why was the -50 hp Grim Cesta added to the game?" When I came to the only logical answer it was one of those "doh" moments.

The rumor I've heard is that it was added for PvP sac builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

55 and dying because you took on 10 enemies, not going to happen in hard mode because they will loose agro (except for the 3) before they over come you health regen. Just make sure they have a place to run and not against a left hand wall.

A proper 55 build can handle an infinite amount of enemies. Not sure where people get the 10 monster limits from. What a 55 can't handle is mesmers, which is the advantage of the permasin.

They are both a problem from the point of view of balance, but I suspect Anet left the 55ers alone because they DO bring down ecto prices. The days of ecto at 17k/ea were ridiculous.

That said...I would welcome ALL invinci-builds of all types being eliminated entirely. Mostly because it would FORCE people to adapt new builds and team modes. Just mix things up for a while, if it doesn't work itself out in 2 months, restore 55ers.

Mad King Corn · Jul 05, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

but I think it is pretty obvious that that was how the skill was designed to work

I agree, and there is nothing wrong with keeping it that way. It would be much better if there was simply a 50% damage reduction in ONLY the underworld, perhaps some kind of atmospheric effect simular to the ones in Nightfall after going into the vortex.

C2K · Jul 05, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torabo

So... if I use say [Frigid Armor] + [Burning Speed] I'm breaking the balance of the game because I'm removing the 'cost' of one of the skills?

Setting aside the question of whether Perma-SF is over-powered or not (I agree it may FEEL over-powered in CERTAIN AREAS, but then so is 600/55), using OTHER skills to remove/reduce the downside of ANOTHER SKILL isn't game breaking or balance breaking in itself. it not like you're keeping SF up all the time and being able to ignore the loss of life JUST by spamming ONLY SF.

It isn't much the skill combo thats breaking the balance. Pre-buff, Shadow Form was borderline overpowered, because it took effort to make it everlasting. Then Anet said, "Lets add 15 seconds to the duaration of Shadow Form so that even a simpleton can do it".

Now I have nothing against the people who use SF or Ursan because you have to play with what your dealt. But to anyone who accepts these ridiculous skills as how it should be, what are you thinking?! Skills like Ursan and SF are big insults to the playerbase by Anet. Its like telling the playerbase "Sorry you are so bad at this game, here is something to make up for it."

And if this is a prequel to GW2, its going to fail, because easy games tend to get boring really fast.

Vyral · Jul 05, 2008, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Never really did any real farming with the Perma-Sin...

But this might make it harder to get our FoW run down to 25 mins... 28 might be where we cap.

Hyper Cutter · Jul 05, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Stop and ask yourself this question, "Why was the -50 hp Grim Cesta added to the game?"

Because the item rewards in Prophecies all had wierd-ass stats? This is just one of the only to have a use...

Antheus · Jul 05, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Stop and ask yourself this question, "Why was the -50 hp Grim Cesta added to the game?" When I came to the only logical answer it was one of those "doh" moments.

/doh, of course, necro off-hand was made for monks... Who wouldn't figure that out.

It is blood requirement.

What is the speciality of blood? Saccing. Saccers need low health. Hence it was added for them.

Gun Pierson · Jul 05, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

/doh, of course, necro off-hand was made for monks... Who wouldn't figure that out.

It is blood requirement.

What is the speciality of blood? Saccing. Saccers need low health. Hence it was added for them.

Technically it started out as a healing ankh if I'm not mistaken, not a cesta. But I don't wanne get in the debate itself, just wanted to give the info. It would be nice if one of the oldschool high end traders and pricecheckers could confirm this to be true or not.

fireflyry · Jul 05, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Ironically in my case, the addition of grind and their mishandling of PvE/PvP has made me generally less impressed with GW and Anet than if they had just left the game alone. I used to believe that Anet was onto something different, and I would actually have bought GW2 without reconsideration if they had stuck to their guns. Now, I'm forced to seriously think about whether I trust Anet with GW2.

Although off-topic I have to voice my support of this statement and although it has become a mantra of sorts the initial vision and focus of Guild Wars has seeming been morphed into just another MMO grind fest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anet

Guild Wars® is an online roleplaying game that rewards player skill and innovative gameplay over hours spent online.

With the majority of titles, in game rewards and even the power of highly effective and in many cases integral skills revolving around the core repetitiveness of grinding I'm surprised this statement is still on record.

The moment grind was linked to PvE skill power and effectiveness was a black day for Anet and their supposed core philosophy imo.If anything it placed them in a realm on their own as loot and titles were easily ignored by those who did'nt care about such aesthetics.Involving, in many cases over-powered and/or game altering, PvE skills was akin to Anet slapping itself in the face contradiction wise.

The effect it has had on the overall feel of GW gameplay and the community as a whole really speaks for itself, at least to those who began playing at Prophecies release.

I'm still hopeful GW2 will be a return to the core philosophy that initially separated it from the competition and made it an attractive and worthwhile purchase but I'm certainly not holding my breath.

On-topic...my farming guildmates are still raking in the ecto perma-sinning, if at a slightly slower rate, which only leads me to conclude that 90% of Anet is busy on GW2, 9% are focussed on GW PvP, and one stoned Dev called "Smokey" pops in once a month to check in on GW PvE.

upier · Jul 05, 2008, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

That and remove the -50 icon and you kill the 55 build in those 2 steps.

Ive 105ed outside of Bergen.
So that won't kill it I guess.

manitoba1073 · Jul 05, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Aahhahahahahaah

So many people are mad about a predictable change. I for one am happy, I just made QUITE a profit from ecto rising

AAHAHAHAHA

So hows that profit now.

Age · Jul 05, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

The rumor I've heard is that it was added for PvP sac builds.

A proper 55 build can handle an infinite amount of enemies. Not sure where people get the 10 monster limits from. What a 55 can't handle is mesmers, which is the advantage of the permasin.

They are both a problem from the point of view of balance, but I suspect Anet left the 55ers alone because they DO bring down ecto prices. The days of ecto at 17k/ea were ridiculous.

That said...I would welcome ALL invinci-builds of all types being eliminated entirely. Mostly because it would FORCE people to adapt new builds and team modes. Just mix things up for a while, if it doesn't work itself out in 2 months, restore 55ers.

I have taken out my share of Jade Mesmers in Byduck Byway ouside of The Market Place and this is with out /Mes 55 build.I just make sure I have SoJ up before they cast signet of disruption and I am fine as for -50 cesta probably for Necros blood I think.

You are right though a 55 can handle more than 10.I would say that 55 is more balanced Than PermaSF Sins are.Your last paragraph wouldn't work as most would quit or just not play around FoW-UW unless it was say getting thier FoW armour something I will never see myself doing as the game is dwindling down.

manitoba1073 · Jul 05, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

They can handle more if the hits are staggered or are using Sheilding hands. The one point they cant is 12 hits at the same time.

tmakinen · Jul 05, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

This is OT (like a good portion of the rest of the thread) but a 55 monk can withstand any number of hits and a hefty degen at the same time, just by alternating Shield of Absorption and Shielding Hands over Prot Spirit while compensating the degen with HB or Mystic Regen. Such a build works, e.g., for the backyard popups of Gates of Kryta HM, or the charr horde in Nolani Academy HM (take Fleeting Stability as well).

The entire point of a farming build is that you are invincible for the given target. There isn't a single place on the PvE side of the game where the monsters have a fair chance regardless of what build you use. They are meant to be defeated, and talking about godmode in the context of GW skills is just silly.

Riceboi · Jul 05, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Let's keep dropping that ecto price to show anet that their sf nerf was totally useless. Hopefully they will some how just nerf the UW runs and restore sf back, so I can do all the other farms with my sin.

manitoba1073 · Jul 05, 2008, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

This is OT (like a good portion of the rest of the thread) but a 55 monk can withstand any number of hits and a hefty degen at the same time, just by alternating Shield of Absorption and Shielding Hands over Prot Spirit while compensating the degen with HB or Mystic Regen. Such a build works, e.g., for the backyard popups of Gates of Kryta HM, or the charr horde in Nolani Academy HM (take Fleeting Stability as well).

The entire point of a farming build is that you are invincible for the given target. There isn't a single place on the PvE side of the game where the monsters have a fair chance regardless of what build you use. They are meant to be defeated, and talking about godmode in the context of GW skills is just silly.

Yeappers so true. Not to mention when ppl want to say stuff then what about a 1 shot kill all on map skill then. To bad they forget an important mechanic of the game that in itself would balance it out. Lets see who can figure it out what that mechanic would be.